Black Stork Nest 2, Jan and Janika, 2021

[Solo]

The husband is annoying, wife has gotten up several times, but as soon as she lies down, the care starts again and she does not like it at all But as soon as she gets up, he cleans himself.

it seems so - they don't always accept it happily (both)

[Solo]

[Solo]

and the next stand up (22:06:58 )
22:08:58 back incubating after pooping, eggs rolling and digging the nest-bowl

and preening continued (he - her)

22:11:13 she stand up, both preening, 22:13:09 she back incubating and preening continued

[juta]

Hello all!
You can vote names until Monday early morning

http://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/view ... 63#p799451

[Solo]

May 15
Hello everyone

female out at 04:56:52
male is incubating







EDIT:
09.17 female is back with straw

EDIT 2
male flew out and in with new moss - repeatedly , there is now one moss bed

[Solo]

[Solo]

and still there is not enough moss


if it continues like this, we will have no chance to see into the nest bowl

moss with flower

[Solo]

Solo , could you please post the link (the source), where prof. P. Zieliński emphasises that:
1. Storklets need to strengthen outside the nest (for some weeks)
2. Storklets need to find the (right) company for their first journey
It looks as if prof. Zieliński and prof. Maris Strazds (+ Wolfgang Fiedler + Hans-Günther Bauer) disagree on this matter. ....

Anne,
it would not be the first time (and not the last) that world-renowned experts have different opinions, but this is not the case - see the first part of my sentence

... they need not only to fly out from the nest happily (not left by the adults and well fed), but also to strengthen outside the nest (some weeks) and find the (right) company for a challenging journey. ... (and there are other several very important aspects, but that would be too long contribution) ...

prof. P.Z. wrote this on one polish chat on May 6 - he answered to one lady:

9:37 PM Piotr Zieliński
@Ania Nawrocka bardziej chodzi o to, żeby były dobrze odżywione w gnieździe i po wylocie zdażyły sie przygotować do wędrówki. To im zajmuje kilka tygodni/
it is more about being well-nourished in the nest and getting ready for the journey after leaving. It takes them several weeks /

btw. we know e.g. that Upene -Ziluka stayed on the river Olša (CZ-PL border) from 26.08.2015 to 13.09.2015 - 19 day, approx. 3 weeks and also we have documented information - she stayed there in mixed small group with adults and and young storks

9:58 PM Piotr Zieliński
@Ania Nawrocka - opierają sie na doświadczeniu innych, które znają trasę. A same zapamiętują trasę (uczą się) i w kolejnym roku więdzą gdzie lecieć.
based on the experience of others who know the route. And they remember the route themselves (they learn) and in the next year they know where to fly.

[aquiline]

What a beautiful nest

Many thanks to everybody for pictures and comments

[Solo]

11.57 male arrived, ​10.58 female out

[Solo]

12.04 female in with straw





and out (12.07)

[Solo]

What a beautiful nest Many thanks to everybody for pictures and comments

Aquiline, you're welcome

[Solo]

12.18 she is back with next straw





12.22 female out (this time she flew to the right)

[Solo]

12.30 it starts raining

[Solo]

13.24 it's raining harder (not very hard)
13.34 the rain is over (maybe)

he digs the nest-bowl nice around (during that - 15 min. - he withered)

[Solo]

13.5? female in, short nest digging and settled down incubating (male - preening)

[Sabsy]

and still there is not enough moss

if it continues like this, we will have no chance to see into the nest bowl
...

I especially like your funny way and of course the wonderful pictures - thank you

[Anne7]

Anne,
it would not be the first time (and not the last) that world-renowned experts have different opinions, but this is not the case - see the first part of my sentence

prof. P.Z. wrote this on one polish chat on May 6 - he answered to one lady:

9:37 PM Piotr Zieliński
@Ania Nawrocka bardziej chodzi o to, żeby były dobrze odżywione w gnieździe i po wylocie zdażyły sie przygotować do wędrówki. To im zajmuje kilka tygodni/
it is more about being well-nourished in the nest and getting ready for the journey after leaving. It takes them several weeks /

btw. we know e.g. that Upene -Ziluka stayed on the river Olša (CZ-PL border) from 26.08.2015 to 13.09.2015 - 19 day, approx. 3 weeks and also we have documented information - she stayed there in mixed small group with adults and and young storks

9:58 PM Piotr Zieliński
@Ania Nawrocka - opierają sie na doświadczeniu innych, które znają trasę. A same zapamiętują trasę (uczą się) i w kolejnym roku więdzą gdzie lecieć.
based on the experience of others who know the route. And they remember the route themselves (they learn) and in the next year they know where to fly.

Thanks for your reaction, Solo.

Unfortunately, this is not the clear information I had hoped for.
It’s a pity that there’s no link to a paper or article written by Prof. P. Zieliński.
I just read here two excerpts from a Polish chat, where neither the context nor the original questions have been mentioned.

Solo, I’m afraid we don't understand each other clearly.
Now you suddenly write that P. Zieliński and M. Strazds do not disagree: “…experts have different opinions, but this is not the case…”
Nevertheless, I see conflicting information. These experts only seem to agree on the 1st of the 3 statements (according to your claims, see below). That’s interesting.
Because this is about important BS behaviour, I would like us to clarify the matter.

So let me try again. Please let’s examine each of the 3 below statements separately.

You wrote:
“As emphasized by prof. P. Zieliński they need not only (1) to fly out from the nest happily (not left by the adults and well fed), but also (2) to strengthen outside the nest (some weeks) and (3) to find the (right) company for a challenging journey. ...”

So you claim that prof. P. Zieliński emphasises 3 things:
1. juveniles need to leave the nest well fed
2. (after leaving the nest) juveniles need to strengthen outside the nest (for some weeks)
3. (after leaving the nest) juveniles need to find the (right) company for their first migration


1. juveniles need to leave the nest well fed


As I wrote in my previous post, everyone seems to agree with this statement.
Body weight and time spent on the nest have a significant impact on their migratory success.
The longer a storklet stays on the nest and the longer it is well fed by its parents on the nest, the more likely it is to migrate successfully
This is (according to your claims) the only statement on which P. Zieliński, M. Strazds, W. Fiedler, G. Bauer, and on this forum also U. Sellis, clearly agree.


2. (after leaving the nest) juveniles need to strengthen outside the nest (for some weeks)

Here P. Zieliński and M. Strazds clearly disagree (according to your claims).
According to M. Strazds, juveniles do not need to strengthen outside the nest (for some weeks).
On the contrary, he writes: "most successful birds left their nests late and started the southward migration straight from the nest."
It is, of course, known that some storklets do indeed stay in the (wider) nest area - for a few days to even a few weeks - before starting their migration. These are possibly youngsters that left the nest a little too early and/or are too skinny (not well-fed) to start their migration straight away.
The 5 Estonian juveniles (Maru, Païke, Karula, Oru and Aru) that received a transmitter (and were therefore closely observed) started their migration immediately after leaving the nest.


3. (after leaving the nest) juveniles need to find the (right) company for their first migration

This is in my opinion the most important contradiction. P. Zieliński and M. Strazds clearly disagree on this matter (according to your claims)
M. Strazds writes clearly: “Contrary to many migratory species, Black Stork is a solitary traveller.”

Solo, how should juveniles, who start their migration straight from their nest, find the (right) company for their first journey? And (assuming they need companionship) why would they never travel with their parents and/or siblings, but instead look for other suitable company? And where are they supposed to find that suitable company - especially in countries where very few BS live ?
This sounds illogical to me.

M. Strazds wrote: “Typical migration consists of comparatively short bursts of flight days interspersed with longer foraging stops” and “The most important factor affecting success of travel appears to be longevity of stay at the most important foraging stops rather than number of sites they explore.”
It is not because they encounter other BS along the way, at these important stopover places, that they also travel all the way together. Possibly, they may fly for a while with one or another (mixed) group, but then separate again at the next stopover. It is also known that adult BS and juveniles have different flight behaviour during migration. Traveling together would not be beneficial to either. (Young Black Storks tend to make longer and more frequent stopovers during their autumn migration than adults, the latter flying shorter daily distances and spreading their migration time over a greater number of days of active flying - Jadoul et al, 2003)

As you know, the first, and thus most difficult migration is basically done on their innate idea of the ‘flight path’. Even scientists are still not 100% sure about how exactly this works, but migratory birds seem to have a number of built-in navigational instruments: a ‘compass’, a ‘clock’ and a ‘map’.
It is known that afterwards, from their second migration on, juveniles also rely on acquired knowledge of the route (memory). M. Strazds wrote: "Those birds that made a backward migration visited most of the sites they had explored earlier, however, with different travel routes between the stops."


What Makes a Successful Migrant?
Lessons from a Five Year Tracking Project of a Long Distance Migratory Species
Source: http://forestiersdumonde.org/wp-content ... t-Book.pdf
VII INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON BLACK STORK Ciconia nigra
Part 4. Movements, Tracking, Ringing & Migration of Black Stork, page 34

Stay with the family or go alone?
Mélanie Larue, Mathieu Boos, Christian Brossard, François Baillon, Jean-Jacques Boutteaux, Jérôme Bernard, Paul Brossault, Odile Petit & Damien Chevallier
ABSTRACT: For many migratory species, social interactions on migration are poorly known, particularly the extent to which brood siblings remain together, at least during their first post-fledging migration. This study tested the assumption that Black Stork siblings stay together during migration and is the first time that juveniles from the same brood of a Palearctic sub-Saharan migratory stork species have been tracked on migration. Four juveniles from the same brood were followed by satellite tracking, and each dispersed or migrated in a completely different direction to its siblings. The results thus refute the idea that Black Stork siblings remain together on their first migration, but to confirm these new findings, it is important to repeat the study using additional nests.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... 16.1190616

[Liz01]

moss with flower

she is just beautiful

Solo, thank you very much for the beautiful pictures and reporting
It's a lot of work

[Liz01]

17:54 Female came home
they greeting are each other




and preening