Following Karls' Families

Migration Maps, Tõnn, Greater Spotted Eagle and Black Storks
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Anne7
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Re: Following Karls' Families

Post by Anne7 » October 14th, 2019, 4:19 pm

We have new data from KARULA :headroll:

» TRACKER MAP
Karula_October12-October14_afternoon
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14dSDC ... sp=sharing

Little Karula is still at Lake Eber. For 27 days, already.
If he intends to empty the entire lake, he will not be done with that in the coming years. :D

Tracker map says that Karula moved 6,73 km (in 2 days).

Image

Image

Image
© kolay O3
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1 ... 4Xg7=h1440
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Post by Solo » October 14th, 2019, 5:36 pm

birdmap update 14.10.2019

KARULA
Distance: 1126 km, Last data: 14.10. plus 8 km/in 3 day
(previous data: Distance: 1118 km, Last data: 11.10.)

- in the Lake Eber (Eber Gölü) - Dere Karabağ, Bolvadin district of Afyonkarahisar Province, in Turkey

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Post by Jo UK » October 14th, 2019, 6:06 pm

Urmas wants to remind us that data on the Migration Map and on Tracker Maps is different only because there are fewer data points on Migration Map

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » October 14th, 2019, 7:29 pm

Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 4:02 pm
While our tracked birds are in possible danger in war zones, we shall not show the most recent location on the tracker maps. The omitted locations will be added to the next tracker map.
This is one small thing we can do to provide safety for our birds. Of course, they face many dangers not associated with war but we have no control over those things. This is one thing we can do.
Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 6:06 pm
Urmas wants to remind us that data on the Migration Map and on Tracker Maps is different only because there are fewer data points on Migration Map
Jo, does this imply that we should not publish/document birdmap-updates on the forum before we are certain that our birds have already left the most recent location(s)? (in war zones)
In birdmap updates, the last location point(s) cannot be 'removed' (by us).

Or will Urmas provide the birdmap-updates with some delay?
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
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Post by Jo UK » October 14th, 2019, 7:43 pm

Anne, we did not discuss the Birdmap, which is entirely the responsibilty of Urmas. Only he can choose what to publish there.
Urmas is aware of this change we have made to Tracker Maps.

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Post by Polly » October 14th, 2019, 8:18 pm

Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 4:02 pm
While our tracked birds are in possible danger in war zones, we shall not show the most recent location on the tracker maps. ... This is one thing we can do.

Great. Thank you for that decision. :thumbs:

It is a pleasure for us to be together with *our* birds on their way in this way.
But there is a contrast to friend - foe. Not only in war.
I very much welcome a flight under the radar!
"Let nature be your teacher."
(William Wordsworth)

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Post by Jo UK » October 14th, 2019, 8:51 pm

Polly, that is good to know that you support our tiny attempt to help our birds!

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Anne7
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Post by Anne7 » October 14th, 2019, 8:52 pm

Once more, there was no update for ORU.

The next data session is expected tomorrow morning.

I hope that Oru is OK and will send us some good news tomorrow.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
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Post by sova » October 14th, 2019, 9:09 pm

If you do not want to give out data .... that's all OK but you can already see where the birds are in the afternoon, right?
Then they can say that, then we do not wait until 20 00 clock (20:00 clock for me).

Good night to all :wave:

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Post by Anne7 » October 14th, 2019, 9:35 pm

sova wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 9:09 pm
If you do not want to give out data .... that's all OK but you can already see where the birds are in the afternoon, right?
Then they can say that, then we do not wait until 20 00 clock (20:00 clock for me).
Good night to all :wave:
:wave:
I think I understand what you mean, Sova :nod:
If we only make the afternoon tracker map, the storklet is (most probably) still travelling.
By the time our tracker map is published on the forum, our bird is already (much) further...

Thanks for the weather reports from yesterday and today.

SUMMARY OCTOBER 13

KARULA (Hatched 20.05.2018)
Birdmap was set to spring migration and the new distance measurement started on 15.02.2019
(Total distance on 14.02.2019 = 6606 km)

Birdmap was set to autumn migration on 11.08.2019 and the new distance measurement started on 15.07.2019
(Total distance on 14.07.2019 = 3012 km)
Overall flown distance until 14.07.2019 = 9618 km

Karula arrived at Lake Eber on 17. September (= 26 days)
No birdmap update
(Last birdmap data: 11.10.2019. Distance: 1118 km (+ 2 km in 1 day), at Lake Eber near Derekarabağ in Turkey.)
Weather report on 13.10 in Derekarabağ at 10:00
Temp 2 m above the ground: 19°
Temp 500 m above the ground: 21°
Precipitation: 0 mm
Humidity: 30%
Air pressure: 1024 hPa
Clouds: 0%
Wind 100 m - E (16 km/h)
Wind 250 m - E (15 km/h)
Wind 500 m - E (10 km/h)
Weather report on 13.10 in Derekarabağ at 15:00
Temp 2 m above the ground: 22°
Temp 500 m above the ground: 24°
Wind 100 m - E (16 km/h)
Wind250 m - E (16 km/h)
Wind500 m - E (11 km/h)

ORU (Hatched 16.05.2019)
Oru started his first migration on 10.08.2019.
No birdmap update
(Last birdmap data: 12.10.2019. Distance: 4088 km (+ 33 km), sent data from Adana (Incirlik Air Base) in Turkey.)

ARU (Hatched 16.05.2019)
Aru started his first migration on 17.08.2019.
Last birdmap data: 09.10.2019. Distance: 1884 km, a little north of Borki in Belarus.
On 10.10.2019, Aru has been found alive, but in poor condition, and has been taken to veterinarians in Pinsk.
On 11.10.2019, Aru died. Age: 148 days (or 4 months and 25 days). 55 days after starting his migration.



TODAY'S SUMMARY OCTOBER 14

KARULA (Hatched 20.05.2018)
Birdmap was set to spring migration and the new distance measurement started on 15.02.2019
(Total distance on 14.02.2019 = 6606 km)

Birdmap was set to autumn migration on 11.08.2019 and the new distance measurement started on 15.07.2019
(Total distance on 14.07.2019 = 3012 km)
Overall flown distance until 14.07.2019 = 9618 km

Karula arrived at Lake Eber on 17. September (= 27 days)
Last birdmap data: 14.10.2019.
Distance: 1126 km (+ 8 km in 3 days), at Lake Eber near Derekarabağ in Turkey.)
Weather report on 14.10 in Derekarabağ at 10:00
Temp 2 m above the ground: 19°
Temp 500 m above the ground: 22°
Precipitation; 0 mm
Humidity; 20%
Air pressure; 1024 hPa
Clouds; 0%
Wind100 m - S / SE (04 km/h)
Wind250 m - SE (06 km/h)
Wind500 m - E (00 km/h)
Weather report on 14.10 in Derekarabağ at 15:00
Temp 2 m above the ground: 24°
Temp 500 m above the ground: 27°
Wind 100 m - E (05 km/h)
Wind 250 m - E (05 km/h)
Wind 500 m - E (03 km/h)

ORU (Hatched 16.05.2019)
Oru started his first migration on 10.08.2019.
No birdmap update
(Last birdmap data: 12.10.2019. Distance: 4088 km (+ 33 km), sent data from Adana (Incirlik Air Base) in Turkey.)

ARU (Hatched 16.05.2019)
Aru started his first migration on 17.08.2019.
Last birdmap data: 09.10.2019. Distance: 1884 km, a little north of Borki in Belarus.
On 10.10.2019, Aru has been found alive, but in poor condition, and has been taken to veterinarians in Pinsk.
On 11.10.2019, Aru died. Age: 148 days (or 4 months and 25 days). 55 days after starting his migration.


Michi :wave:
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Post by Michi » October 14th, 2019, 9:55 pm

Hello together, :wave:
Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 4:02 pm
While our tracked birds are in possible danger in war zones, we shall not show the most recent location on the tracker maps. ...
This is one small thing we can do to provide safety for our birds. ...
A wise decision, Jo, to minimise at least one risk to which the storklets are exposed. :thumbs:

I'm quite sure, our Oru is already in Syria, - if not further south. I hope he flies quickly through to Israel. Fingers are crossed. :2thumbsup:

Anne, Sova :wave:

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Post by Jo UK » October 14th, 2019, 10:03 pm

There are so many pros and cons to this subject. For instance, if a bird stays in one place for many days (a lake?) should we show any data?
What about other, non-war places where people just shoot birds because it is the done thing? As said earlier, these birds face many dangers that we cannot control. And we, here, don't have all the answers.

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Post by Michi » October 14th, 2019, 11:44 pm

Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 10:03 pm
There are so many pros and cons to this subject. For instance, if a bird stays in one place for many days (a lake?) should we show any data?
Isn't it then a possibility that you tell us only, where the bird is? Without posting trackermaps or pictures from the nearest surroundings? For example, "Oru is somewhere at Tishreen Lake" (it's in Syria). But this way only, if it is a big lake, where he can be anywhere. If the bird is at very small lakes or small villages, then you could write, "he is near the next big town like Latakia or so, in a wooden area or in fields".
If we receive such a daily report from you, we know that the bird is fine respectively it is travelling. You could also tell - if possible - the flown distance.

For me this would be enough. I don't know how the other members see it.
And of course it's a loss in picture-documentation, what might be important for the ornithologists.

Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 10:03 pm
What about other, non-war places where people just shoot birds because it is the done thing? As said earlier, these birds face many dangers that we cannot control. And we, here, don't have all the answers.
The same principle that applies to war zones should apply to Lebanon. This country is not less dangerous than war zones, - in my opinion.
There are trophy hunters on their way, many. I suppose, our Karl was one of their victims. :-(
In a major Berlin newspaper on 15. September 2019 appeared a big article about the dangers for migratory birds. The german Nature Conservation Union NABU has given statements in the article. Among others, it was written (citation): "Particularly striking bird species such as storks and falcons are popular trophies for hunters."
And (citation):"According to estimates, 5000 Lesser Spotted Eagles are killed each year in Lebanon." (I could cry when I read that.)

This is the link to the article, it is available only in German language, unfortunately. But it's very interesting.
https://m.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/ ... ogle.de%2F

What do you think about this way to handle it? Would it be possible? I guess it would mean a little more work for you, Jo, Juta and Anne. It's just a suggestion.

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Post by Jo UK » October 14th, 2019, 11:49 pm

Many thanks for your thoughts, Michi.
I think the subject of the safety of tracker maps is a work-in-progress.
Who knows how it will work out by the end of the year!?

But I am shocked and horrifed by the great number of LSE killed. Such evil in the world.

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Post by Michi » October 15th, 2019, 12:09 am

Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 11:49 pm
I think the subject of the safety of tracker maps is a work-in-progress.
Probably, yes. It would be best if our birds would fly non-stop to Israel. :rolleyes:
Jo UK wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 11:49 pm
But I am shocked and horrifed by the great number of LSE killed. Such evil in the world.
An unimaginable number. It's awful, horrifying.
I could never have imagined that so many LSE would be killed. Not to speak of other birds of prey. :unsure:

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Post by Abigyl » October 15th, 2019, 12:20 am

It's been few weeks since some of us came with this idea to hide the birds movements.
I wanted to write, but after a second and third thought I choose to remain silent at that time.

War Zones?? Their way from North Europe to Africa is not the French Riviera. :slap:

All the west of Turkey is an area with much military activities. If you read or watch international news, you'll see that one of the busiest Air Base in Turkey is INCHERLIK.
For days now my heart stops each time I open the map. ORU is in the center of this Air Base. Cannot see it anymore. :cry:

Many storks and other birds with or without Gps, lost their life there. "My first WS" was found dead many years ago, in an air base in the North of Konya; from each death I learned better the Turkish Map and the list of military Airports.
So why birds are showed on maps in those areas?

Why is Eedy still on the birdmap? (I apologize for mentioning his name here)
His wintering area is between the largest Saudi Military airbase and the Yemen border. Where there is an active war of many countries against Iran. This is THE WAR ZONE during the last 2 months.

And Syria which is on front page for years?

The list is long! I'm sure all those countries are very occupied with their real problems and are not interested in one specific bird of any kind. I feel bad to remind us that only last week we lost a BS because it was weak or hungry and not because it was in a war zone.

Million of birds are crossing this long way; All of us saw many videos about the migration around the world and it always starts with the same words: "Millions are making the way to their wintering area, many of them won't arrive there and others won't make the way back".

That's nature. We are doing what we can to help, but we cannot change birds behaviour.
I believe that all the new technologies, medias and live cams - are connecting people to birds and helping us to understand the main issues of nature in this changing world, while we are doing our best where it's needed.

I hope that decision makers will take in consideration, with open mind, all the elements of this subject: what's best for the birds, for the research and researchers, and also the loyal forum's participants.

:offtobed:

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Post by Ari19 » October 15th, 2019, 1:19 am

Abigyl wrote:
October 15th, 2019, 12:20 am
It's been few weeks since some of us came with this idea to hide the birds movements.
I wanted to write, but after a second and third thought I choose to remain silent at that time.

War Zones?? Their way from North Europe to Africa is not the French Riviera.

All the west of Turkey is an area with much military activities. If you read or watch international news, you'll see that one of the busiest Air Base in Turkey is INCHERLIK.
For days now my heart stops each time I open the map. ORU is in the center of this Air Base. Cannot see it anymore.

Many storks and other birds with or without Gps, lost their life there. "My first WS" was found dead many years ago, in an air base in the North of Konya; from each death I learned better the Turkish Map and the list of military Airports.
So why birds are showed on maps in those areas?

Why is Eedy still on the birdmap? (I apologize for mentioning his name here)
His wintering area is between the largest Saudi Military airbase and the Yemen border. Where there is an active war of many countries against Iran. This is THE WAR ZONE during the last 2 months.

And Syria which is on front page for years?

The list is long! I'm sure all those countries are very occupied with their real problems and are not interested in one specific bird of any kind. I feel bad to remind us that only last week we lost a BS because it was weak or hungry and not because it was in a war zone.

Million of birds are crossing this long way; All of us saw many videos about the migration around the world and it always starts with the same words: "Millions are making the way to their wintering area, many of them won't arrive there and others won't make the way back".

That's nature. We are doing what we can to help, but we cannot change birds behaviour.
I believe that all the new technologies, medias and live cams - are connecting people to birds and helping us to understand the main issues of nature in this changing world, while we are doing our best where it's needed.

I hope that decision makers will take in consideration, with open mind, all the elements of this subject: what's best for the birds, for the research and researchers, and also the loyal forum's participants.
Abygil, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, worries, and observations.
I learned a lot from this post.

We must continue to hope for the best... and plan for the worst. Birds have a difficult, dangerous life.
By putting transmitters on them, we enter their world and learn of their tragedies. It is hard to bear.
The only thing we can is to try and use this knowledge to better their life. Somehow.

Jo, I agree and welcome the decision about obscuring the map. I personally do not need much detail, just to know that the bird is doing fine.

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Post by Liz01 » October 15th, 2019, 6:40 am

Abigyl wrote:
October 15th, 2019, 12:20 am
It's been few weeks since some of us came with this idea to hide the birds movements.
I wanted to write, but after a second and third thought I choose to remain silent at that time.
............

Why is Eedi still on the birdmap? (I apologize for mentioning his name here)
His wintering area is between the largest Saudi Military airbase and the Yemen border. Where there is an active war of many countries against Iran. This is THE WAR ZONE during the last 2 months....
Thanks for your contribution. I gave it up to write about it. A few days ago I pointed out that 2 black storks fitted with an transmitter, were killed. I think this message has also reached Urmas. Maris Strazds already knew it.

Something is wrong in this thread this year. It's better to be silent.

EDIT: We are not allowed to mention Eedi anymore, we are not allowed to insert the original citation and translation, although it is important to recognize possible mistakes. And now we can not compare with the data from last year.

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Post by sova » October 15th, 2019, 7:44 am

15. Oktober

Good morning to all :hi:
Anne7 wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 9:35 pm
:wave:
I think I understand what you mean, Sova :nod:
If we only make the afternoon tracker map, the storklet is (most probably) still travelling.
By the time our tracker map is published on the forum, our bird is already (much) further...
...
No Anne .... you do not have to publish anything here ... but only, maybe in the afternoon say so; Today there is no tracker map for Oru. Because you can see where the bird is. I do not need to know anything (bird is close to the city or from this lake) ... only we know, in the evening there is no map.

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Post by Abigyl » October 15th, 2019, 7:59 am

Liz01 wrote:
October 15th, 2019, 6:40 am

Something is wrong in this thread this year. It's better to be silent.

EDIT: We are not allowed to mention Eedi anymore, we are not allowed to insert the original citation and translation, although it is important to recognize possible mistakes. And now we can not compare with the data from last year.
Thanks ARI and Liz for you comments.
Yes Liz, you are right in all your comments. I was too tired to mention all. Thanks for helping! :thumbs:

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