How do you say - - ?

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Kukelke
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Re: How do you say - - ?

Post by Kukelke »

Luz4711 wrote:May I say some?
Stealing - to take something and the one you take it from does not notice it while you are doing it.
Raub (robbery) - to take something from somebody mostly with physical violence (Strassenraub for example - sometimes with murdering = Raubmord) - and the one you take it from does notice it.
That's why we call them Raubvögel which does not count for Magpies, they steal. Therefore "Diebische Elster".
The difference between the two crimes also important for insurance matters and the years you are going to jail getting caught doing this or the other.
Yes, you're right. The same goes for Dutch too: Roof (theft, robbery), straatroof, roofmoord. Even our "diefachtige ekster" (the stealing magpie) is almost the same in both meaning and form.

But what I wanted to say is that the oldest, original meaning of "raub" and "roof" and all other cognates in all Indoeuropean languages was "to snatch". And the meaning "to steal" is a younger one, especially in compounds like Strassenraub and Raubmord and the likes, because people had a descriptive word for those particular birds they saw ("snatch birds"), long before there even were things like roads (Strassen). At the time this Indoeuropean word "*reup" evolved, from which the modern "raub", "roof" etc derived, people were hunter/gatherers and it is a known fact that actual theft and robbery is virtually unknown among hunter/gatherer communities. Theft and robbery first became common when people gave up their hunter/gatherer life and became farmers. From that time comes the secondary meaning "to steal", for example for snatching a tool from your neighbour, and later on the meaning broadened even more and became "to take away without permission", regardless how fast or slow that snatch actually was.
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Post by Luz4711 »

Thanks Kukelke for this and other interesting post.
Good night ... Tot ziens ... 8-)
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Post by Liis »

...or When do you say ...?

Sorry about English translations being late every now and then.
You could not, for instance, catch the Tartu University mushroom exhibition http://www.looduskalender.ee/en/node/17781.
But translations, as most of the administration and work around Looduskalender, is done by volunteers, in spare time. Sadly, there are just 24 hours for us too, to fit dusting, weeding and more in.
So why translate it at all, seeing that there are more urgent seals and birds around?
Well, some procrastination; and might be interesting to show the interest in, almost passion for, mushrooms, common for many northern and East European countries. Food for thought: where does the mushroom picking boundary go? why? since when? (not too old a tradition actually, mushrooms were generally regarded with great suspicion some 100 years ago). Is Japan a mushrooming country or do they just have the Tricholoma matsutake hype? :mrgreen:

It would be nice to show, by colour code or otherwise, on the Estonian page - that is always the source - what has been translated and what not, but system is not set up for that.
Back to the bears-and-seals grindstone :wave: ...
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Post by Luz4711 »

Liis wrote:...or When do you say ...?

Sorry about English translations being late every now and then.
But translations, as most of the administration and work around Looduskalender, is done by volunteers, in spare time. Sadly, there are just 24 hours for us too, to fit dusting, weeding and more in.
So why translate it at all, seeing that there are more urgent seals and birds around?
Thanks to all of you doing that great Job. As far as it goes with me, I can wait. If I am in a hurry and have to know something right now, I use machines to get an idea about it. And with the latin names I can always google somewhere else.
Good night ....
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Post by Liis »

The bird season is with us ...
About the males and females of birds:
What do you say in English? Google Translate stubbornly suggests hen and cock. Not the most reliable of sources, true.
I have used male and female, but lately checked some ornithological literature and saw hen and cock for e g larks. And eagles.

Doesn't feel right or bring up the right picture, somehow, but maybe it is?
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Post by Bea »

I still know the German "Terzel", in English "tercel", for male birds of prey ... but I am not sure if it is not meant only for falcons and hawks.

It is "hunters language".
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Post by alice44 »

I would say we refer to most birds as males and females. Game birds -- birds that are hunted might often be called hens and cocks.

I did find this
male eagles are called gigallos -- but that is a word I have never seen
and
Tiercel is the name awarded to a male eagle and a variety of other male prey birds
and again it is a word I do not know.


I suspect Americans usually just say male or female for most birds and animals

we do speak of bucks for male deer and bulls for male elk and moose, and does for the females of those species.
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Post by macdoum »

Alice I have often seen Tiercel on forums re: Peregrine Falcons. :wave:
Carmel a member of SHOW .. I hope you love birds too. Its economical. It saves going to heaven.
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Post by Liis »

Thank you!
So it is at least not wrong to use male and female.

It is interesting and fun to know (of) the many specialist words for various varieties, ages, activities etc of birds and animals. But it is only too easy to choose wrong in the maze, so I generally stick to keeping it simple and amateurish.

But please, do correct or discuss, any time!


PS. Didn't know about tiercel - that is, I knew the word, but had some hazy idea about bird species. Thank you!
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Post by Felis silvestris »

I know about the "tercel" (German Terzel) for male birds of prey who are smaller than the female (which most are). When I looked it up, I found that the male sparrowhawk has an own name in German - Sprinz.
If you go to bird of prey demonstrations, they will also tell you this, with the explanation that the female is bigger because she lays the eggs and the bigger the eggs, the better the start for the chicks.
But it is interesting to read if it is the same in English too.
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alice44
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Post by alice44 »

:blush: maybe I am lazier than even most Americans about gender specific terms for animals.

Macdoum I have only closely followed one North American peregrine falcon forum. I don't know if I just missed term "tercel," or if it was never used.
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Post by Liis »

Is it nature films, photography etc or wildlife dito :puzzled: ?
Very current question, the Matsalu Film Festival just about to start.

"Wildlife" to me seems to restrict it to mobile beings, but it looks like the preferred term.

Is it that wildlife instinctively sounds more prestigious - associations to tigers, elephants, bears :mrgreen: ?
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Post by Liis »

Words that I miss in English

The 24-hour "day":
Ööpäev in Estonian, dygn in Swedish.

Don't scientists have experiments running in English outside daylight hours? :innocent:
The 24-hour period is of course more precise than saying "x days". And easier than giving the dates.

One glossary suggests "nychthemeron"...
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Post by Liis »

Whatever has happened to Google Translate?
Here are 2 paragraphs from a recent GT translation about great tits, Estonian to English
Fat kut is eating one egg every day, and it is located after the last egg laying. Typically, ten grams of eggs are in the worm. If, during the laying period, the eggs are covered with nectar, then the egg will not do it any longer during the incubation period.
Through the webcam, the fatty lizard's followers have probably noticed that the bird's eye began to sow the eggs before the last egg laying. After fattening, after the third egg laying, no longer covered the eggs, and since the laying of the fifth egg, the female birds could be seen constantly on the nest. Altogether eight eggs fell on the sack of fat. Does this mean that this bird's head began to sow eggs before the fog and the sons hatch at different times
From GT, 2017-06-28.

Below, what it was about - I think
The great tit lays one egg each day and starts the incubation after having laid the last egg. Usually there are about ten eggs in a clutch. While the great tit covers the eggs with nest material during the egg-laying it does not do this while it leaves the nest during the incubation period.
Those who have followed the nest life of the great tit in the webcam have evidently noticed that the female started to sit on the eggs some days before the laying of the last egg. Already after laying the third egg the great tit did not cover the eggs and starting after the laying of the fifth egg, the female could be seen constantly in the nest. Altogether the great tit laid eight eggs in the nest. Does this mean that the female started incubating the eggs before the clutch was complete and that the chicks will hatch at different times

Or have I missed some secret code? :shock: The Estonian original, in case you want to check (Looduskalender http://www.looduskalender.ee/n/node/1446)
Rasvatihane muneb iga päev ühe muna ning hauduma asub ta pärast viimase muna munemist. Tavaliselt on kurnas kümmekond muna. Kui munemisperioodil katab rasvatihane munad pesamaterjaliga kinni, siis haudumise ajal pesalt ära käies ta seda enam ei tee.
Veebikaamera vahendusel rasvatihase pesaelu jälgijad on ilmselt märganud, et emaslind hakkas munadel istuma päevi enne viimase muna munemist. Juba kolmanda muna munemise järel rasvatihane enam mune kinni ei katnud ning alates viienda muna munemisest võis emaslindu juba pidevalt pesal näha. Kokku munes rasvatihane pessa aga kaheksa muna. Kas see tähendab, et see emaslind hakkas mune hauduma enne kurna täitumist ja pojad kooruvad erinevatel aegadel?
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Post by Wellowat »

Here you got it in over 70 languages :D
https://meinung.de/posts/wie-sagt-man-d ... n-sprachen
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