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Felis silvestris
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Re: Viewing More Than One Webcam!

Post by Felis silvestris »

This is no disease that arrives and leaves just like that. Why do you think they have killed ten thousands of wild boar and forbidden the winter feeding? It is still spreading and has in the meantime reached almost whole of Estonia, including the island of Saaremaa. There is no cure and there is no vaccinations (in German language you find more information here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikanische_Schweinepest). It is a great threat as well for the pig farmers.

I think the question is valid this year too.
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Post by Biker »

new attempt:
i meant: was 2009 also the swine fever?
(i expected not really an answer; not everybody could probably remind all those things)
I do research, if it is really important for me.
the current situation is critical and that is what is worrying.
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Felis silvestris
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Post by Felis silvestris »

Okay. I had not seen in the morning that this question was already 7 years old. As the question is expected, and was asked already, I had not noticed that Liz dug out an ancient topic and answered it.

To answer your question. I don't think there was ASF in Estonia in 2009. The Baltic states were affected from 2014 onwards, when the disease moved northward from Lithuania and Poland.
“One can measure the greatness and the moral progress of a nation by looking at how it treats its animals” (Mahatma Gandhi)
"You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals" (Paul McCartney)



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Post by Biker »

oh really.
i think there was in the late 1970ies: there was also a plague called Schweinepest here in Northern Germany. it could be the same desease which reached now the northern States. this is an interesting topic, i think, i do research a bit about all this.

but it is a bit off topic here :blush:
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Post by Biker »

there are two deseases: KSP and ASF. .almost indistinguishable, but both dangerous.
but for many LK forum members this could be known already.
also KSP reached Latvia in 2012

http://www.tierseucheninfo.niedersachse ... 21692.html (only in german)
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Felis silvestris
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Post by Felis silvestris »

Yes, that is what I read as well. In this case it is the ASF. And it is basically concerning the wild par population, although a few pig farms have been hit as well. Basically it it bad for the "pig meat trade" in general.
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Post by Biker »

If I am not mistaken, it was forbidden to enter a few forests. in my youth - in the 1970's - because of these diseases.. i have no idea no more, which of the two it was.
thank you Felis silvestris for moving this topic to a suitable place
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Felis silvestris
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Post by Felis silvestris »

I can't remember that, may have not been in my area.
But on a different note, the German hunters, veterinaries, farmers and authorities are getting ready for ASF as well:
http://www.topagrar.com/news/Schwein-Ne ... 20251.html
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Post by ame »

winter is coming with interesting tricks.


the reporter in the video says that this phenomenon has been seen in the Baltics in 2014, too, but i have totally missed that news.
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Post by ame »

a highly pathogenic avian influenza ("bird flu" of H5 type, especially H5N8) is spreading in Europe among wild birds and it has also been found in some bird farms.
if one finds a dead wild bird in one must not touch it. the disease is not contagious in humans but humans may spread the disease. it's also possible that not all birds become sick but may carry the virus.

the Finnish authorities have given instructions about what to do if someone finds a dead bird:
- do not touch the bird.
- it is not necessary to report every single dead bird to authorities but
- if one finds 5 or more dead birds in one place one should inform authorities about the location of the finding. leave the bird on the finding spot. it will be collected by authorities.
these instructions are for Finland but they sound sensible enough as guidelines for other countries, too.

the authorities do not discourage people from bird winter feeding but urge to keep the feeding places hygienic (good hygiene is always required in winter feeding in all circumstances in order to avoid spreading of salmonella and other contagious bird diseases).

the present avian influenza status is summarized here:
http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArt ... leId=22663

in the article there's a map of the found cases of the disease.
Image

the virus has also been found in some bird farms around Europe. these farms will be isolated and all the birds will be killed and the carcasses will be destroyed safely.

in Finland this avian influenza has so far been confirmed in the following cases from Nov 25 onward (source the Finnish Food Safety Authority EVIRA 9.12.16)
- In Åland two tufted ducks on Lemland and Vårdö islands (H5N8)
- In Mariehamn in an aviary a peacock and a chicken (H5N8)
- In Nauvo on Storlandet island three tufted ducks (H5)
- In Åland two white-tailed sea eagles (the other in Finström with H5). two more eagles and a swan are under study.

as we can see this disease has effects on WTEs, too. they'll take any carrion to eat and perhaps they'll catch the virus from a dead virus-carrier. actually in Åland some dead tufted ducks were found when someone saw a WTE carrying a duck and dropping it. on the spot several dead tufted ducks were found. (i'm not sure if any of these was killed by the flu.) altogether about 60 dead tufted ducks have been found in Åland in the mid-November and some of those have been confirmed to carry the Disease.

maertha has made a comprehensive summary of the situation of the avian influenza and WTE's.
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=863
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Post by asteria »

It is weird that birds are killed instead of vaccination.
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Post by ame »

this disease is so contagious that if one bird gets the infection then it is very likely that all the others (or at least a large proportion of them) get it, too. when the disease is found it is too late for vaccination even if there were any. therefore it will be necessary to kill all the birds in the infected farm and destroy the carcasses. this will (hopefully) stop spreading of the disease.

the avian influenza is like the influenza affecting people: it transforms easily and quickly. therefore it's very difficult or impossible to predict beforehand what the spreading virus will be like. for humans vaccinations are developed each year but the mixture of antibodies is always a guessing game. the success is never known well beforehand. the vaccinations for humans contain a mixture of antibodies for different varieties of viruses and people hope that the mixture will suit the virus trait(s) which actually begins to travel around the world. only afterwards it is found out how well the guessing game went.
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Post by ame »

a new case of avian influenza in Finland was confirmed yesterday Dec 16. the H5-form of the disease was found in a WTE which was found dead at lake Pirttijärvi in Murtamo near the city of Rauma. Rauma lies on the west coast on mainland Finland and is not far from where i was born. :unsure:

in the area there are many bird farms. the studies continue to find out if the virus is of type N8. more results are expected today.
source EVIRA (unfortunately only in Finnish):
https://www.evira.fi/elaimet/ajankohtai ... ikotkassa/

edit: on Dec 17 it was informed that the virus discovered in the WTE found dead in lake Pirttijärvi was of the highly pathogenic H5N8 type.
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Post by Liz01 »

The NABU, Nature Conservation Association Germany
says, that the origin of the virus comes from the poultry farms.
We humans are once again to blame that the wild animals die.

In a wild population the virus can not survive. But on poultry farms. The virus comes with the feed. The transports of animals are also to blame.

The virus comes from Asia. A wild bird can not be sick and can carry a virus to Europe for thousands of kilometers.
The government does not want the poultry industry to be guilty. I understand why. Unfortunately, a lot of money is earned with poultry from farms. That is why it is easier to say the wild birds are to blame.

If that were so, I wonder why the birds are getting sick within an enclosed farm? :puzzled:
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Post by maertha »

Yesterday the first avian influenza case in the UK during the current outbreak was reported from a poultry farm near Louth in Lincolnshire. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) confirmed H5N8 in turkeys. Here is the latest global situation update, provided by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations http://www.fao.org/Ag/AGAInfo////progra ... pdate.html

White-tailed Eagles are susceptible to this year´s virus strain; hence I started recently a new topic. ame has mentioned it above. Along with some general information on the outbreak, updates and news you can find a list of suspected and confirmed cases of H5N8 in White-tailed Eagles in the database. Click here viewtopic.php?f=46&t=863&p=503930#p503930
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Post by ame »

a new case of avian influenza has been found in Finland: a WTE was found dying with the highly pathogenic form H5N8 in Harjavalta in SW Finland. the bird was found in ill health on Dec 23rd in a local industrial region and was taken to a bird enthusiast to receive treatment. despite of this the bird got worse and died on Christmas eve. a restriction area with 10 km radius has been declared around the finding spot of the WTE. in these restriction areas farm birds are not allowed to go out and also special arrangements are applied to prevent the farm birds getting the flu.

the Finnish Food Safety Authority EVIRA has also given further restrictions: no poultry may be kept out of doors in the coastal area (75 km wide from sea to inland) from Kokkola in the NW to Vaalimaa on the SE Russian border without a surrounding safety net with small 'eyes'. it has already been recommended to avoid carcass feeding of wild birds in this area.

https://www.evira.fi/elaimet/ajankohtai ... usvyohyke/ (in Finnish)

edit: also an eagle owl (Bubo bubo) has been found dead with H5N8 in Sund in Åland on Dec 20. earlier in December a dead WTE with H5N8 was also found in Sund.
https://www.evira.fi/elaimet/elainten-t ... -suomessa/
GT refuses to translate the EVIRA pages... :puzzled:
in the table in the latter page the location of the finding is given in the 2nd column, bird species in the 3rd, virus type in 4th, and the date of forming the restriction zone in the 5th. the confirmation of the cause of death seems to take about a week after the discovery of the dead/ill bird.
the Finnish names of the birds:
tukkasotka = tufted duck (Aythya fuligula)
riikinkukko = peacock (Pavo cristatus)
kana = chicken (these two in an aviary, not in wild 8-) )
merikotka = WTE (Haliaeetus albicilla)
huuhkaja = eagle owl (Bubo bubo)
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Post by asteria »

A stupid question but still: why not just add tamiflu in the food of farm birds instead of killing them? This drug really prevents influenza and treats it when you get it.
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Post by ame »

two new cases of avian influenza have been confirmed in Finland. the Finnish Food Safety Authority EVIRE has today given information that highly pathogenic H5 has been found in a WTE found on an island in front of Rauma and another WTE, found in Kemiönsaari, has had H5N8. Rauma is a city on the SW coast of Finland and Kemiönsaari is an island to SE of Turku (saari = island in Finnish).
https://www.evira.fi/elaimet/elainten-t ... -suomessa/

i found some maps on EVIRA's web page which show the restriction areas around the finding places of the infected WTES. the finding in Rauma is actually in Eurajoki on an island called Nurmes, near the nuclear power plant in Olkiluoto. (in recent years there have been many smaller municipalities have been annexed together or to cities. sometimes quite new names have been invented for the new bigger town so names of places have become a bit random. Eurajoki used to be an independent town a few years ago.)
https://www.evira.fi/elaimet/elainten-t ... linnuissa/

asteria :hi: ,
Tamiflu is a medicine for humans, used in treatment and prevention of the human "bird flu". the Finnish Wikipedia says that the effective substances oseltamivir and sanamivir in Tamiflu "are so far effective on some types of H5N1", which is not the type of avian influenza which is now infectious in birds, H5N8. all of these 'alphabet-number'-combination viruses are slightly different. the same medicine cannot be used to treat all of them. that's why influenza viruses are so tricky. the viruses varie and change all the time as they travel around the world. besides i don't think that the bird flu(s) of humans is (are) the same disease(s) as the avian influenza(s) in birds

i also think that Tamiflu probably could not be used for animals. usually human medicines cannot be used to treat animals or vice versa. sometimes they can; our cat had same pills as for humans as thyroid treatment. some medicines used for humans can be poisonous for animals, like aspirin and other quite common human painkillers are not suitable at all for cats. if the solution were as simple as you suggest (giving Tamiflu to farmed birds) it would certainly have been used already.
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Post by ame »

the 13th case of avian influenza in Finland has been confirmed by EVIRA (Finnish food safety authority) on Jan 30. a WTE with the highly pathogenic H5N8 form of the disease was found in Vårdö municipality in Åland. a total of 8 WTEs have been found dead due to the disease in Finland.

a table of all cases is on EVIRA's web page (unfortunately only in Finnish):
https://www.evira.fi/elaimet/elainten-t ... -suomessa/
a few posts above this one i have given translations of the birds' names in the table.

EVIRA pages redirect to Avian Influenza Portal. there's all kinds of information, including Prevention & Control of the disease in poultry:
http://www.oie.int/en/animal-health-in- ... firmation/
it seems that vaccination can be done but it is problematic, not a straight-forward solution at all.
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Post by ame »

now on the EVIRA's webpage there's a map of the locations of where sick birds with avian influenza have been found in Finland besides the table with the cases.
Image
https://www.evira.fi/elaimet/elainten-t ... -suomessa/
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