Petition About Nimetu, from Dr. Madis's topic.

Petitions and campaigns
Locked
User avatar
Manu
Registered user
Posts: 5813
Joined: February 1st, 2011, 10:32 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Petition About Nimetu, from Dr. Madis's topic.

Post by Manu »

It's good to hear the investigations goes on :nod: .
aita
Registered user
Posts: 3203
Joined: April 29th, 2009, 9:39 am
Location: Estonia

Post by aita »

asteria wrote:Why don't they check farmers and dove-breeders?
I have never heard that in Estonia have dove-breeders. But maybe some are, somewhere ..
I think that Nimeta was shot because he was frightened away Poacher catch, (He was there for 6 days) or feared, that the eagle may attract curious photographers near. Poacher or poachers were afraid that their presence is detected. Poacher or poachers had no clue that the eagle on the back is a transmitter
User avatar
Chimega
Registered user
Posts: 3008
Joined: July 12th, 2012, 7:49 am
Location: Iowa

Post by Chimega »

I believe the 6 days refers to Nimeta being dead for 6 days before Urmas found his body.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
User avatar
Eden
Registered user
Posts: 815
Joined: August 8th, 2012, 3:14 pm
Location: near Northsea, Germany

Post by Eden »

"In the last position of eagle we did not find anything, but the flock of Ravens started from the field nearby, like some dead animal somewhere close. Therefore no surprise that Nimeta spent there six days before we lost signal.
Soon we found dead body of eagle in channel, half in water, laying on back and also ring and transmitter on it. Seemed about a week the body was there and soft parts of body were eaten by Ravens."


I understand it the same way Aita did.
Nimeta spent in this area (ca. 150 m radius) about 6 days (27.9.-2.10.), most probably attracted by the dead animals, on 2nd of October signal was lost. After being killed his body was there for about one week.
So it might be that the poachers did not like that the eagle was drawing people’s attention to that place.
But – what was the sense of depositing there dead animals, if the poachers did not want to attract (and shoot) birds of prey??
One planet meets another. Planet 1 says to Planet 2, “Hey you look terrible”. Planet 2 says, “Yes I know. I have Homo Sapiens.” Planet 1 says, “Don’t worry. I had that too and it will soon disappear.
User avatar
juta
Site Admin
Posts: 5177
Joined: September 25th, 2008, 1:52 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by juta »

Hello Eden! You asked
"But – what was the sense of depositing there dead animals, if the poachers did not want to attract (and shoot) birds of prey??"
Dead animals were most probably to atract other animals for poaching
Proud member of SHoW (StorkaHolics of the World)
User avatar
asteria
Registered user
Posts: 9425
Joined: February 6th, 2009, 9:37 am

Post by asteria »

aita wrote: I have never heard that in Estonia have dove-breeders. But maybe some are, somewhere ..
I think that Nimeta was shot because he was frightened away Poacher catch, (He was there for 6 days) or feared, that the eagle may attract curious photographers near. Poacher or poachers were afraid that their presence is detected. Poacher or poachers had no clue that the eagle on the back is a transmitter
It may be poachers or dove breeders who hate any birds of prey and kill them by all means, there are even special(Ukrainian) forums when dove breeders place the photos of those killed birds. :slap: A poachers would rather kill somebody edible. AFAIK the hunters would rather catch a bird of prey and then use it for hunting than just kill it, birds of prey are unedible for ppl but valuable for hunting. That is why I supposed that Nimeta and other birds of prey were killed by somebody who considers them as an enemy.
User avatar
Eden
Registered user
Posts: 815
Joined: August 8th, 2012, 3:14 pm
Location: near Northsea, Germany

Post by Eden »

juta wrote:Hello Eden! You asked
"But – what was the sense of depositing there dead animals, if the poachers did not want to attract (and shoot) birds of prey??"
Dead animals were most probably to atract other animals for poaching
When I think about which mammals eat carrion, only foxes come to my mind – and they normally don’t hunt foxes this way. And wolves prefer to hunt and eat fresh meat, if possible.
Which other animals do you have there who eat dead animals?
One planet meets another. Planet 1 says to Planet 2, “Hey you look terrible”. Planet 2 says, “Yes I know. I have Homo Sapiens.” Planet 1 says, “Don’t worry. I had that too and it will soon disappear.
User avatar
Eden
Registered user
Posts: 815
Joined: August 8th, 2012, 3:14 pm
Location: near Northsea, Germany

Post by Eden »

asteria wrote:
It may be poachers or dove breeders who hate any birds of prey and kill them by all means
There are even dove breeders who use their own birds as lure for the birds of prey. But they would only use “doves of minor value”….
One planet meets another. Planet 1 says to Planet 2, “Hey you look terrible”. Planet 2 says, “Yes I know. I have Homo Sapiens.” Planet 1 says, “Don’t worry. I had that too and it will soon disappear.
aita
Registered user
Posts: 3203
Joined: April 29th, 2009, 9:39 am
Location: Estonia

Post by aita »

Eden wrote: ="juta"]Hello Eden! You asked
"But – what was the sense of depositing there dead animals, if the poachers did not want to attract (and shoot) birds of prey??"
Dead animals were most probably to atract other animals for poaching quote]

When I think about which mammals eat carrion, only foxes come to my mind – and they normally don’t hunt foxes this way. And wolves prefer to hunt and eat fresh meat, if possible.
Which other animals do you have there who eat dead animals?
Also, bear and wild boar are eating carrion, both have a lot of meat and skin. Fields may also come deer and moose is eating the edge of the forest. Poacher shot that that will happen to come.
User avatar
Chimega
Registered user
Posts: 3008
Joined: July 12th, 2012, 7:49 am
Location: Iowa

Post by Chimega »

Poachers very often kill birds of prey that would prey on other animals that hunters are there to hunt for. They will kill eagles that take grouse, for instance - or birds that they THINK will kill grouse or ducks, geese, whatever they want to hunt. Eagles are considered a threat to their hunting because they think they hunt these birds, and they don't and no one seems to be able to convince them otherwise.

Eagles will stop and feed on carrion if they are hungry and the food or carcass is laying there for them to eat. The poacher sees this and shoots the eagle, thinking it was the eagle that killed the prey they (the shooter) was after. But they were wrong.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
User avatar
Chimega
Registered user
Posts: 3008
Joined: July 12th, 2012, 7:49 am
Location: Iowa

Post by Chimega »

Eden wrote:"In the last position of eagle we did not find anything, but the flock of Ravens started from the field nearby, like some dead animal somewhere close. Therefore no surprise that Nimeta spent there six days before we lost signal.
Soon we found dead body of eagle in channel, half in water, laying on back and also ring and transmitter on it. Seemed about a week the body was there and soft parts of body were eaten by Ravens."


I understand it the same way Aita did.
Nimeta spent in this area (ca. 150 m radius) about 6 days (27.9.-2.10.), most probably attracted by the dead animals, on 2nd of October signal was lost. After being killed his body was there for about one week.
So it might be that the poachers did not like that the eagle was drawing people’s attention to that place.
But – what was the sense of depositing there dead animals, if the poachers did not want to attract (and shoot) birds of prey??
That is not the way I understand it. Maybe we need Urmas to come here and explain for us or for Dr. Madis if he has time. Nimeta's body was in a state of decomposition, if I read correctly and see correctly on the photo that was provided, either via website or the video. Not only decomposition but also partly eaten.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
User avatar
Eden
Registered user
Posts: 815
Joined: August 8th, 2012, 3:14 pm
Location: near Northsea, Germany

Post by Eden »

aita wrote:
Also, bear and wild boar are eating carrion, both have a lot of meat and skin.
Thank you Aita, I didn’t think of boars.
One planet meets another. Planet 1 says to Planet 2, “Hey you look terrible”. Planet 2 says, “Yes I know. I have Homo Sapiens.” Planet 1 says, “Don’t worry. I had that too and it will soon disappear.
User avatar
Felis silvestris
Site Admin
Posts: 20021
Joined: February 20th, 2011, 4:54 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Felis silvestris »

Another senseless death of a bird with transmitter! Work of years destroyed in minutes and a bird even kind of tortured to death by somebody who should actually know better:

http://aqc.aquila-it.pl/index.php?optio ... by&lang=en
“One can measure the greatness and the moral progress of a nation by looking at how it treats its animals” (Mahatma Gandhi)
"You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals" (Paul McCartney)



The Aquila Pomarina Collection
User avatar
Starling
Registered user
Posts: 4377
Joined: July 2nd, 2012, 9:16 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by Starling »

:banghead: Sickening.
User avatar
Eden
Registered user
Posts: 815
Joined: August 8th, 2012, 3:14 pm
Location: near Northsea, Germany

Post by Eden »

I don’t know where to put this video?
Hen harrier: An appeal for help (RSPB)
http://www.rspb.org.uk/film/8291000.aspx
Anyhow, it is in line with this incredible occurrence from Greece and also with the death of Nimeta.

With these sentences, the Poles speak from my heart:
“It also makes no difference if the bird was intentionally aimed at or was just a victim of an accidental shot. The only acceptable reason in such case would be obtaining food, which, as we can with great degree of probability assume, was not the case. In this, as in millions of other cases of this type, especially in our "civilised" part of the world, the majority of hunters are people with financial status enabling them not only to buy food alone, but also expensive hunting gear. And the reason is always some inconceivable and sick pleasure, sometimes supported by vague and confusing theories of the "necessity of regulation of the population" of various species. Firearms has never been the right tool for solving any problem. And never will be.”
One planet meets another. Planet 1 says to Planet 2, “Hey you look terrible”. Planet 2 says, “Yes I know. I have Homo Sapiens.” Planet 1 says, “Don’t worry. I had that too and it will soon disappear.
User avatar
Chimega
Registered user
Posts: 3008
Joined: July 12th, 2012, 7:49 am
Location: Iowa

Post by Chimega »

Hi Felis silvestris,

That is horrible!!! And have you all heard of the vulture who has been accused of being a spy for Israel by the Saudi Arabia government because it was found with a tracking devise and transmitter? :shock: :slap:

I don't know the full story, yet, as I have just been too busy with medical things and I forgot to go back and check. This article says the vulture is being detained. :shock: :slap:
'Terrible price'
Israeli officials told Ma'ariv they were "stunned" by the allegations and concerned that the bird could meet a horrible punishment in the notoriously severe Saudi justice system.

The data would be used to improve understanding of the endangered species' behaviour.

"Now, this poor bird is paying a terrible price. That's very sad," said the unnamed expert.

"I hope they release the poor thing."

The vulture is the latest animal to be accused of being an unwitting Mossad operative.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12120259
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
User avatar
macdoum
Registered user
Posts: 6786
Joined: November 17th, 2008, 12:12 am
Location: Alsace, France

Post by macdoum »

Chimega wrote:Hi Felis silvestris,

That is horrible!!! And have you all heard of the vulture who has been accused of being a spy for Israel by the Saudi Arabia government because it was found with a tracking devise and transmitter? :shock: :slap:

I don't know the full story, yet, as I have just been too busy with medical things and I forgot to go back and check. This article says the vulture is being detained. :shock: :slap:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12120259
This story was posted here (somewhere ?) by Jo. Vulture was eventually released. :mrgreen: Seems reason prevailed.
Carmel a member of SHOW .. I hope you love birds too. Its economical. It saves going to heaven.
Emily Dickinson
User avatar
Felis silvestris
Site Admin
Posts: 20021
Joined: February 20th, 2011, 4:54 pm
Location: Germany

Post by Felis silvestris »

I had posted the story about the vulture, I think in the migration map thread, where Kordian also posted. It came throught he same channel I got the other message.
“One can measure the greatness and the moral progress of a nation by looking at how it treats its animals” (Mahatma Gandhi)
"You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals" (Paul McCartney)



The Aquila Pomarina Collection
Madis
Registered user
Posts: 25
Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 9:48 am

Post by Madis »

Hello!
Yes, the Eagles soft tissues where mostly consumed, therefore we did not have lots of material to examine, but as lead is so soft and while traveling through tissues loses up to 50% of its mass due to fragmentation, we had few larger fragments and lots of tiny pieces on the remaining carcass on radiographs (radiographic find is the gold standard proving shot injuries). Adding the good condition (back fat) of the eagle and the radiographic find, and the data from tracking device, there is sufficient evidence what is enough to state that the eagle was shot.
Now, after that the circus started when the inspectorate and ministry of environment started to speculate that there is no conclusive evidence as to how Nimeta died, yet he was full of lead fragments and had NONE in his body when he was released just days before (conclusions of the cause of death can be made only by a licensed veterinarians, according to law)
After the pressure what you guys have been doing, they asked from one of my colleague (veterinary pathologist at the Uni.) to "fish out" some fragments and yes he got out 3 metal fragments. And then those fragments where sent to Estonian Forensic Science Institute, for chemical analyse and so far all of the 3 expertise's (mine, vet pathologist, and Estonian Forensic Science Institute) have stated the same, that its lead from standard ammunition used in hunting, so the bird has been shot! Well, so far over 3 moths have gone to proving what I proved at the beginning, legally on the rights that the law gives to an veterinarian.
Also we are back in the beginning as those fragments will not give us no new knowledge (don't have name of the shooter on them) but only prove again what has been said by me and also by other competent specialists... lets hope that they will now put the energy and resources to cracking the circle defense of those local poachers (sorry but those people don't deserve to be called hunters, so lets call em as they are... poachers!).
Coming now back to the suspects, the local hunters from Simuna jahtkond, the leader, Raul Vahter, and also other members are owners and workers for a company Artiston (http://www.artiston.ee/) Its a big private forestry. As i see, their motive would be forest management as protected species, nesting in their managed forest, will put strict prohibition to their management and therefore they will lose green stuff as they are not allowed to cut town the trees in 200m around the eagles nest. As its a powerful company, the local people relie from they jobs what that company may provide to that region, so its hard to get anybody standing up and confessing against their boss :(
My current concern is, was Nimeta the only? if we look at the small feeding place on webcam and the amount of eagles, the field in Simuna was bigger and with so much more food. I believe that there may have been more eagles feeding there!
Anyways, its a new kind of case for the Inspectorate as there has been nobody before who could determine criminal activities against wildlife and there will be more cases like that coming up as I plan to report all acts of that kind to the authority's. I hope they don't mind me poking around and discovering that everything ain't that good The collaboration between us and authority's is crucial and sometimes some heavy interest from abroad puts snowballs to move. At the end of the day lets keep our wildlife safe as it is an important part of our environment!
Cheers and thanks for all the help tough there is lot still to do!
--
Madis Leivits, DVM
Expert-veterinary
Estonian Fund for Nature
Image
www.metsloom.ee
www.elfond.ee
User avatar
alice44
Registered user
Posts: 16489
Joined: April 8th, 2009, 8:59 pm
Location: Oregon, Western USA

Post by alice44 »

Thank you so much for taking the time to let us know what is going on and for fighting for wild life justice.

I guess we can just hope that the next time, because they have learned their lesson, they will spend less time trying to prove that the obvious is not obvious and will get on with the real investigation.
Locked

Return to “Petitions - Important Notes for Nature Lovers”