Latvian WtE nest webcamera Juras-erglis: Discussions

[Sonchik]

Good morning everyone! (late one, but still ...)

If we assumed that there won't be hatchlings (I don't want to even write it, but ...), would it be possible for them to get a second clutch this year? For Bald Eagles it's not that often the case, but it still is possible. What about our "just married" couple? Another miracle ...?

Hi!
So many miracles have happened in this nest that I will not be surprised at anything.
About the second clutch. In January 2020, a pair of bald eagles, Harriet and M15, lost their baby eagle, which was 27 days old. The eagles began to mate, but almost no one believed that a second clutch was possible. Nevertheless, this happened and healthy baby eagles were born. It's a miracle, but it has a reason, I think.
There is an instinct of reproduction, when each individual spreads his genes and tries to destroy the genes of competitors. But there is an instinct to preserve the biological species.
Let's assume that the last pair of eagles left on earth and the real father of the eggs died. If the male destroys the eggs and hopes to reproduce his genes, then he is at great risk. He may have chicks of the same sex and they will not be able to reproduce and reproduce the genes further. If he raises chicks from another male, he increases the chances of preserving the species and therefore reproducing his genes. Therefore, in nature, it is possible to raise other people's children.

In this case, the male already has eggs, even if they are not his own. It has no competitor, in the form of the father of eggs. He has no reason to destroy the eggs and make his own. If there were no eggs, there would probably be another clutch.
Repeated ovulation WTE is possible in appropriate circumstances. I've read ornithologists ' statements about it.

[Sonchik]

...
As for the Avian pox, i've read somewhere (i don't remember where and i'm now too lazy to search ), that Avian pox, if left untreated, it represents a greater danger for young eagles than for adults, as self-healing depends on how strong the immune system of the individual is, which is usually stronger in adults than in sensitive eaglets.
If, as we saw with the Bald eaglet i mentioned, there is no hindering extreme humidity and food shortage, an eaglet's immune system can in luckily cases cope with it as well.

Thank you Balistar! That's about what I expected.

[C4colby]

The single eaglet on the Northeast Florida nest was observed on camera by CROW (Clinic for the Rehabilitation of Wildlife) and is believe to have Avian Pox. Luckily the eaglet is thriving and doing well.

[Sonchik]

In the chat, noticed that the wings or one wing of the Mr. C all the time protruding. Even suggested a wing injury. I'm sure with Mr. C wings. It's all right. Raimis also lay like this for the first years. Apparently, it is difficult for males to adapt their bodies for incubation. He need some training.

[handbyl]

Let's see if Milda manages to get Mr Cavalier to do the night-shift.

My sense is that whilst she and Raimis shared sitting, she has more freedom now time-wise. Or not?

Her life certainly is more stable now.

[balistar]

In my opinion, Mr C is the best that could have happened to her in her situation.
I think she made a very good catch with Mr C and she knows it.

[balistar]

Thank you Balistar! That's about what I expected.

BTW: i haven't spotted the dark spot on Mr C's bottom lip anymore (i haven't had the opportunity to see him close enough to the cam). So, was he able to fight it off already (in case it was an Avian pox sore at all) or was it perhaps "only" a piece of food stuck and meanwhile vanished ?

[Ajeta]

Let's see if Milda manages to get Mr Cavalier to do the night-shift.
My sense is that whilst she and Raimis shared sitting, she has more freedom now time-wise. Or not?
Her life certainly is more stable now.

But he has already done one, hasn't he? The night before yesternight or so? Or did you mean again?
You wrote earlier, handbyl, that you find it fascinating to see whether Mr C would actually start bringing fish once a hatchling was there.
I absolutely agree with you as to being vastly interested whether it would work.
My only problem is that the hatchling(s) would be the guinea pig(s) and I am quite afraid of that.

[Ajeta]

No, not at all, i find your train of thought extremely good
For me it would only be further proof of how immeasurable the wisdom of nature is ..... and of how modest our human understanding is (still).

balistar! That's precisely what think, too. A bit as they say: The more you know the more you know that you don't know

[Ajeta]

In the chat, noticed that the wings or one wing of the Mr. C all the time protruding. Even suggested a wing injury. I'm sure with Mr. C wings. It's all right. Raimis also lay like this for the first years. Apparently, it is difficult for males to adapt their bodies for incubation. He need some training.

He would never have been able to beat the handsome big strong noble Mr X2 if he had a problem with his wing.
And he wouldn't be able to keep further possible contenders so well away from the nest, if he wasn't in perfect health.
Anyway, sitting anywhere for a long time means one moves around on / in one's seat a bit, I suppose. It would seem natural to make himself comfortable.

[Ajeta]

As for the Avian pox, i've read somewhere (i don't remember where and i'm now too lazy to search ), that Avian pox, if left untreated, it represents a greater danger for young eagles than for adults, as self-healing depends on how strong the immune system of the individual is, which is usually stronger in adults than in sensitive eaglets.
If, as we saw with the Bald eaglet i mentioned, there is no hindering extreme humidity and food shortage, an eaglet's immune system can in luckily cases cope with it as well.

Thank you for that interesting information. And as always for the reference to other nest. I like that a lot and find it very useful, just to have in mind.
May I also ask: Is Avian Pox the same as Avian Flu? Bc I think at some point you mentioned Avian Flu, I think, and I meant to ask whether that's the same or different.

[balistar]

Thank you for that interesting information. And as always for the reference to other nest. I like that a lot and find it very useful, just to have in mind.
May I also ask: Is Avian Pox the same as Avian Flu? Bc I think at some point you mentioned Avian Flu, I think, and I meant to ask whether that's the same or different.

Ajeta,
first: no, i never mentioned Avian Flu (must have been someone else) .

then:
Avian Pox is a viral disease with the poxviruses, coming along with lesions.
Avian Flu ----> Avian Influenza.
Avian influenza refers to the disease caused by infection with avian (bird) influenza (flu) Type A viruses.

Here you can find more about Avian Pox:
1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3624294/
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ag ... vipoxvirus
3. https://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/content/avian-pox

Here about Avian Influenza:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm

(now i must prepare dinner, be back later)

[handbyl]

But he has already done one, hasn't he? The night before yesternight or so? Or did you mean again?
You wrote earlier, handbyl, that you find it fascinating to see whether Mr C would actually start bringing fish one a hatchling was there.
I absolutely agree with you as to being vastly interested whether it would work.
My only problem is that the hatchling(s) would be the guinea pig(s) and quite afraid of that.

I meant that she seems now to have more time off the eggs than she did with Raimis.

If he sits on the eggs and if he hears the cheeps of the soon-to-hatch chick, why would he not fetch fish, given that by incubating the eggs, he shows clearly that he is broody. It must follow.

I do wonder about Mr C and that panting - right now at 20:00 camera time he has an open beak. Whats up with that? It simply is no where near as warm as it gets in summer.

23:03:07 some odd neck & head movements - is he trying to throw a pellet? Maybe that's the panting But he also is breathing very quickly.

[rebelde]

Let's assume that the last pair of eagles left on earth and the real father of the eggs died. If the male destroys the eggs and hopes to reproduce his genes, then he is at great risk. He may have chicks of the same sex and they will not be able to reproduce and reproduce the genes further. If he raises chicks from another male, he increases the chances of preserving the species and therefore reproducing his genes. Therefore, in nature, it is possible to raise other people's children.

In this case, the male already has eggs, even if they are not his own. It has no competitor, in the form of the father of eggs. He has no reason to destroy the eggs and make his own. If there were no eggs, there would probably be another clutch.

It sounds like very logical and sensible reasoning. Just let me point out the one X-factor of this story, without which it would never have come to this point: the lady Milda herself.
It's clear beyond doubt that Milda would not have warmed to any male, no matter how handsome, unless he'd show respect for her eggs.
It wasn't all that evident even with Mr C in the beginning, when there were maybe still other males to compete with - yet I think none of the males, either mere intruders or Milda's husband candidates, had been left poorly informed about the fact that she would defend the eggs forcefully no matter the cost. She made the necessary choices concerning the eggs, the nest and the territory (which, of course, are inseparable), and Mr C emerged as the male who could live with them and support her agenda while beginning to build up his own - together with Milda. It almost seems Mr C is an intelligent being (in human terms), but it's more likely that he just has very good instincts (as someone already has pointed out here) and an appropriate life situation to get serious about Milda.
From all this follows, to my understanding at least, that he would act in Milda's favour also if some of the eggs would be able to hatch, and that, practically, would end up being of everyone's benefit.

I've been wondering, if it would help him to get the clue concerning the fish business, if Milda would herself bring a fish to the nest - if not now, at least if/when it would be necessary. It would mean that she'd have to leave the chick(s) to be guarded by Mr C, though. I personally wouldn't be surprised if she'd do it, even if it's a crazy idea which goes against everything we know about the behaviour of this species.
I also think it could be expected from Mr C, that whatever happens, he will find a way to adapt to it in a due manner, because he would not risk losing the hard-earned trust of Milda.

[Sonchik]

...
I do wonder about Mr C and that panting - right now at 20:00 camera time he has an open beak. Whats up with that? It simply is no where near as warm as it gets in summer.

23:03:07 some odd neck & head movements - is he trying to throw a pellet? Maybe that's the panting But he also is breathing very quickly.

He's hot. For eagles, the winter temperature is more comfortable than the summer temperature. In April, they always have their beaks open. In the summer, they have fluid flowing from their beak to cool the body.
It moves food from the crop to the stomach. That's what all eagles do. This is most often seen during the incubation period, as the eagles spend a lot of time in the nest.

[C4colby]

Something I have found interesting over the years with watching many nest is observing the personalities of eagles along with their parenting styles. I definitely have found that some are more nurturing than others, differences in feeding the eaglets, etc. I guess the reason I bring this up is bc you will see that some males like to incubate and others not as much or the females decides to do it mostly herself. Well it would appear that Mr. C enjoys incubating the eggs. This will be interesting to see how it goes if there is actually a hatch. No matter what I’m just happy that Milda has found a good mate after all she has been through.

[Ajeta]

I meant that she seems now to have more time off the eggs than she did with Raimis.

Now that you mention that: While searching for fish deliveries in 2019, I came across this interesting post:
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 78#p642978
If that is so, and if - as it looks - Chips will spend this night on the eggs again as the one two (?) days ago, then he will in less than a fifth of the incubation time he has had on these eggs (5 days vs 5 weeks) have done two thirds of Raimis' night shifts in 2018 (2 vs 3). (I hope my mathematics are ok. If not, the link shows what I mean.)
That could be called quite impressive.

[Ajeta]

first: no, i never mentioned Avian Flu (must have been someone else) .

When I wrote Avian Flu earlier I was thinking of this post by you:
https://www.looduskalender.ee/forum/vie ... 61#p788261
But exactly as you say, you wrote Avian Pox.
I could have sworn that I had read Avian Flu in that post.
Sorry, balistar. My head!

[Sonchik]

Let's see if Milda manages to get Mr Cavalier to do the night-shift.

My sense is that whilst she and Raimis shared sitting, she has more freedom now time-wise. Or not?

Her life certainly is more stable now.

Until Milda's life returned to its former stability, everyone wanted her to lose touch with the eggs as soon as possible.
Perhaps it is connected with this. But she didn't completely lose that connection. I wonder if it's possible to go in two directions?

[Sonchik]

BTW: i haven't spotted the dark spot on Mr C's bottom lip anymore (i haven't had the opportunity to see him close enough to the cam). So, was he able to fight it off already (in case it was an Avian pox sore at all) or was it perhaps "only" a piece of food stuck and meanwhile vanished ?

Mr. С doesn't come so close to the camera now, but if you look closely, you can see a black spot even with the beak closed.