Latvian WtE nest webcamera Juras-erglis: Discussions

[Sonchik]

It sounds like very logical and sensible reasoning. Just let me point out the one X-factor of this story, without which it would never have come to this point: the lady Milda herself.
It's clear beyond doubt that Milda would not have warmed to any male, no matter how handsome, unless he'd show respect for her eggs.
It wasn't all that evident even with Mr C in the beginning, when there were maybe still other males to compete with - yet I think none of the males, either mere intruders or Milda's husband candidates, had been left poorly informed about the fact that she would defend the eggs forcefully no matter the cost. She made the necessary choices concerning the eggs, the nest and the territory (which, of course, are inseparable), and Mr C emerged as the male who could live with them and support her agenda while beginning to build up his own - together with Milda. It almost seems Mr C is an intelligent being (in human terms), but it's more likely that he just has very good instincts (as someone already has pointed out here) and an appropriate life situation to get serious about Milda.
From all this follows, to my understanding at least, that he would act in Milda's favour also if some of the eggs would be able to hatch, and that, practically, would end up being of everyone's benefit.

I've been wondering, if it would help him to get the clue concerning the fish business, if Milda would herself bring a fish to the nest - if not now, at least if/when it would be necessary. It would mean that she'd have to leave the chick(s) to be guarded by Mr C, though. I personally wouldn't be surprised if she'd do it, even if it's a crazy idea which goes against everything we know about the behaviour of this species.
I also think it could be expected from Mr C, that whatever happens, he will find a way to adapt to it in a due manner, because he would not risk losing the hard-earned trust of Milda.

Yes, these are very interesting thoughts and they also visited me.
We do not know, but we will try to understand what is the trigger in the standard actions of the eagles? And why do some of these triggers work even with other people's eggs, and some do not work even with their own? In the latter case, it is even good that the ravens ate all the eggs of Akechete. Thus, he will not have offspring and this gene error will not be repeated.

[Sonchik]

Something I have found interesting over the years with watching many nest is observing the personalities of eagles along with their parenting styles. I definitely have found that some are more nurturing than others, differences in feeding the eaglets, etc. I guess the reason I bring this up is bc you will see that some males like to incubate and others not as much or the females decides to do it mostly herself. Well it would appear that Mr. C enjoys incubating the eggs. This will be interesting to see how it goes if there is actually a hatch. No matter what I’m just happy that Milda has found a good mate after all she has been through.

Yes, all this is very inspires. Maybe we'll get lucky and see. About two weeks left.

[pazi]

Looks like another nightshift for Mr C while Milda is off clubbing.
What a stroke of luck. Regardless if the eggs are still viable I think there's a good chance these two will make a nesting couple here next year.

[Ajeta]

Something I have found interesting over the years with watching many nest is observing the personalities of eagles along with their parenting styles.

It's nice that you bring that up, c4colby. I wish so very much that I would have the time to watch the Estonian WTE nest as closely as I am watching this here, and possibly others, too. I would very much like to see these differences in personality, too.
Last year we had a dicussion in this nest concerning fishing. As they were three chicks but the fish didn't suffice, some seemed to think that Raimis was rather lazy, while others said, Milda didn't hunt. In the nest of Anna and Uku, where three eaglets were successfully reared, Anna seemed to go hunting at a much earlier stage of the development of the chicks than MIlda. It was then also argued that that could be due to the difference in the environment, the water was much closer at Anna and Ukus nest, so that Anna could be sure to be back quickly if anything happened on the nest. But perhaps this difference rgarding hunting also had something to do with Anna and Milda having different attitudes. It would be interesting to observe that in great detail.

[Ajeta]

Looks like another nightshift for Mr C while Milda is off clubbing.

Milda is still an attractive lady. And just has had several strong, young and handsome males fighting for her. She doesn't have to do nightshifts anymore

[Sonchik]

Looks like another nightshift for Mr C while Milda is off clubbing.
What a stroke of luck. Regardless if the eggs are still viable I think there's a good chance these two will make a nesting couple here next year.

And this lady was called a victim! She will make anyone a victim herself.

[handbyl]

That could be called quite impressive.

If he is trying to establish his credentials as a plausible breed mate, then smart laddie!

[pazi]

Milda is still an attractive lady. And just has had several strong, young and handsome males fighting for her. She doesn't have to do nightshifts anymore

And this lady was called a victim! She will make anyone a victim herself.

Love both responses!
Exactly my thoughts!

Milda is just awesome and Mr C is very lucky to have fallen on her good side.

[Ajeta]

Love both responses!
Exactly my thoughts!

[Ajeta]

If he sits on the eggs and if he hears the cheeps of the soon-to-hatch chick, why would he not fetch fish, given that by incubating the eggs, he shows clearly that he is broody. It must follow.
...
23:03:07 some odd neck & head movements - is he trying to throw a pellet? Maybe that's the panting But he also is breathing very quickly.

It would be precisely these cheeps of the chicks which I would hope could trigger something? Even if he has not brought fish yet - perhaps those very specific sounds would have an effect? Especially if he has had own kids before and knows the job of father.

I thought those movements with head and neck have to do with moving bits of food from the crop further down? But I see somewhat belatedly that Sochik has already explained that, sorry. I'm sure we need not worry about Chips' health. He would not have gained this territory if he was in anything but a good state.

[Ajeta]

Good evening from Finland! Maybe this has been discussed allready but i wonder why Milda dosen´t bring some food to the nest just for an example to Mr C so he would understand that it is hes job to.

Good evening, Aquila!
That is an interesting question you ask here, thank you. Unfortunately I cannot answer it. My own idea would be that Milda would need to have a concept of "that's his job" and an idea of what teaching means in order to be able to do what you suggested. Personally I would doubt that she thinks in such concepts. But I may well be wrong. That's why I put your question here into the discussion thread so that other users can take note of it. Perhaps they have some more answers or ideas for you.

[Aquila]

Good evening, Aquila!
That is an interesting question you ask here, thank you. Unfortunately I cannot answer it. My own idea would be that Milda would need to have a concept of "that's his job" and an idea of what teaching means in order to be able to do what you suggested. Personally I would doubt that she thinks in such concepts. But I may well be wrong. That's why I put your question here into the discussion thread so that other users can take note of it. Perhaps they have some more answers or ideas for you.

Thanks Ajeta, its already almoust a miracle what happens in the nest this year, so nobody knows where the rabbits go.

[rebelde]

Aquila

I also think it's an interesting question, and I find Ajeta's answer to be very much to the point.

What if Milda would bring in the fish when it's needed, now that she has a loyal male partner who shows strong interest in supporting her with the nest?
Or would she just strictly focus on protecting the chick(s) and wait for Mr C to pop in with fish once, twice, three times a day, just like that?
She would definitely do what's necessary, if her new partner would not get it going in time. The question is: would she do it fast enough?
The reason why she so stubbornly stayed with the eggs - even endangering her own life by not leaving the nest to eat - was because there was no trust established between her and any of the candidates who played their roles in the events. Now there is Mr C and an amazingly evolving partnership.
We can't but wait and see how they will solve the possible forthcoming situation of feeding a chick/chicks. It might as well not happen and the couple would then live on till next year when they could start their own breeding cycle.

Ajeta also pointed out (referring to another post) that Milda hasn't shown similar attitude as, for example, Anna - an Estonian WTE mother of three; she is remembered as having been more active in bringing in fish from early on, whereas Milda has relied more on Raimis's fishing skills to get the chicks fed.
She has always been more of a mighty protector of the nest, not so much of a fisherwoman for others but herself, at least according to my knowledge.
But I strongly believe that she will do what she's got to do, even if it meant getting out of her nest comfort zone.

Finally, one really shouldn't count out the possibilty that Mr C would quickly adapt to the needs of the nest(lings) and keep on saving the day for Milda and all the rest of us.

[ame]

Aquila made a question in the Observation topic. i tried to answer but maybe Aquila will get more answers here.

Good evening from Finland! Maybe this has been discussed already but i wonder why Milda doesn´t bring some food to the nest just for an example to Mr C so he would understand that it is his job to.

hello aquila!
i don't have a better answer to this question than that it's not a female's job to teach a male to bring food to the nest. the male must know how to do it by himself. otherwise his chicks will suffer and he will not produce offspring as successfully as a more diligent father eagle. even a small difference in the behaviour may play some role in the long timescales of evolution.

many of us remember how Raimis brought numerous fish to the nest when Milda and he were dating in the spring 2017. he just could not leave the fish to Milda. he flew out with the fish or whatever food he had when he heard that Milda was coming. we had many good laughs when we watched their behaviour.

i think that not being able or willing to hand over food to another eagle, especially the girlfriend, could be considered as a sign of some sort of immaturity to family life.

[Aquila]

Thanks ame and rebelde. It will be intressed to see what happens.

[Ajeta]

Thanks Ajeta, its already almoust a miracle what happens in the nest this year, so nobody knows where the rabbits go.

I absolutely agree - it is indeed a mircale.
At least to us - bc of course it is very difficult to estimate how miraculous or normal this is in an eagle nest. Who knows how miraculous this will look to the observers in ten years time, when ever more things have come to light thanks to all those present and future cameras observing the nest for us.
For the moment we are left to watch, conclude, hypothesize. And be happy about the beautiful development in the nest. Great that you joined us, Aquila, and thank you for your question.

[Ajeta]

Regarding the bringing of fish to the nest by the male partner, I saw that in the Durbe 2019 season (the first one I looked at now) Raimis brought quite a lot of fish to the nest during the incubation period. Altogether I counted 19 fish (or parts thereof) before the hatching of the first chick.

The distribution was irregular, as could be expected. There were days in a row when he would bring a fish a day as on
March 11 / 12 / 13 / 14 (two)
March 20 / 21 / 22
April 6 / 7 / 8

There were deliveries on alternating days on
March 29 / 31
April 4 / 6

and with two or more days in between on
April 11 (btw. 8 and 14)
April 16 (after 14)

Striking was the delivery on April 16: He brought three fish (i.e. almost 1/6 of all his deliveries in those 5 weeks )
On April 15 late at night (as stated on page 1 of the Durbe 2019 topic) the first egg talk was heard which from then on was getting ever louder.

I would assume that it may not be just coincidence that Raimis increased the amount of fish delivered once the egg talk started.

Whether we can dare to hope that egg talk and the cheeping of the chicks once hatched would have some influence on Mr C in the unlikely event that there be hatchlings here, I cannot tell. We will have to wait and see.

It is also worth keeping in mind that even if it is not coincidence, it may not always be the same at each nest or in each season as something like that is also dependent on all sorts of other circumstances. But it's worth comparing nevertheless - after all, that's one reason why ever more cameras are put up at nests: To collect data to compare.

Regarding Mr C, the question will be if the "feeding program" can set in with these specific sounds or whether the bringing of fish to the nest must have become a habit already beforehand, which it has not here.

Now I shall go and look at the next season for comparable data And needless to say there's not guarantee that I didn't overlook a fish while counting.

And last, but by no means least my wholehearted thanks to all those who so faithfully and tirelessly logged all those fish deliveries in that topic.

[Ajeta]

Aquila

I also think it's an interesting question, and I find Ajeta's answer to be very much to the point. ...

rebelde - I feel greatly honoured! Or should I say
https://giphy.com/gifs/star-trek-wow-sp ... fullscreen

[ame]

thank you Ajeta for this survey!

so the male bringing food to the nest during the incubation time is not at all totally out of the question.

[Sonchik]

thank you Ajeta for this survey!

so the male bringing food to the nest during the incubation time is not at all totally out of the question.

I really liked the conclusion of Vērotāja.
https://forums.dabasdati.lv/viewtopic.p ... 86#p275986

Made wrote: ↑16 Apr 2021 18:02
Observer , I don't understand much in that eagle language, but wasn't Milda's frequent flight when her screams rang out behind the scenes? : roll:
And yet, when there are eggs, at least at the very beginning, both Durbe and Anna have mated (maybe if there is no potty full in their opinion, etc.) ..

Made, from both US cousin white-headed eagles and sea eagle cameras in different countries, I've only realized one thing - sea eagles (white-headed ones, too) are deeply not primitive birds. Their behavior is very complex and individual. They are much more complicated than other observed bird species. And also emotionally (however I don't want to attribute this trait to birds).

Both of these species have so many behaviors that it is impossible to put them in some "standard" frame.
They can live and nest in a trio (Mississippi), they can hatch twice in a row even when a large chick (Harieta / M15) has died, they can mate throughout the nesting season (Romeo / Juliet), etc. They do not nest with just a free bird, they have the need for mutual sympathy.

By this long penter, I mean that I don't think anything that something matters to the Chips. And no conclusions can be drawn from anything. With or without fish. With or without mating. It is irrelevant in the sense that it cannot be used to assess their future prospects.

Nothing is excluded and nothing matters, since the eagles are different.

This is exactly what C4сolby said about the character of the eagles.

Something I have found interesting over the years with watching many nest is observing the personalities of eagles along with their parenting styles. I definitely have found that some are more nurturing than others, differences in feeding the eaglets, etc. I guess the reason I bring this up is bc you will see that some males like to incubate and others not as much or the females decides to do it mostly herself. Well it would appear that Mr. C enjoys incubating the eggs. This will be interesting to see how it goes if there is actually a hatch. No matter what I’m just happy that Milda has found a good mate after all she has been through.

The characters of the eagles, that's what I watch all these cameras for. So I'm more interested in building a nest than hatching eggs and the first days of chicks.
Although I am fixated on the nest in Durbе, but I carefully read all the topics on the forum. And when an extraordinary event happens in some nest, I always watch the stream. Sometimes I specifically look at the nest that is in the period that I am interested in at the moment.
All this I need for comparison. Without comparison, it is impossible to understand what is included in the instinctive reactions of eagles, and what depends on the individual. Sometimes even observing other bird species helps to understand a lot.