Black Stork Nest In Karula 2023.
- Anne7
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Re: Black Stork Nest In Karula 2023.
Here, Kaia grabs #3 by the down feathers.
She tries to drag the chick out of the nest bowl.
The little one crawls back to the broodmates.
She tries to drag the chick out of the nest bowl.
The little one crawls back to the broodmates.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Anne7
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Once more, Kaia grabs #3 by the down feathers and drags the chick out of the nest bowl.
Once more the little one crawls back to the other chicks
Once more the little one crawls back to the other chicks
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Anne7
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Kaia still does not leave #3 alone. The poor thing is lying on its back.
Again she drags the chick aside.
The little one hurries back to its nestmates
Again she drags the chick aside.
The little one hurries back to its nestmates
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Anne7
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For the 4th time, Kaia grabs the chick by the down feathers...
... and drags it aside.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Anne7
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Poor #3 is on its back again
Now #3 is keeping very close to the siblings.
Is Kaia preening it here? Or is she trying to grab it again?
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Anne7
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Kaia still looks very stressed.
She does a ps.
Again she touches #3, but she doesn't drag it out of the nest bowl.
We don't know what Kaia's intentions were.
I myself no longer believe that much in "testing the chick". We drew hope from that at the time with Kaia, but it turned out not to be "some kind of testing" afterwards.
Kaia did not (unlike what Kati did) grab her chick by the head or neck and lift it up, nor did she shake it. Thank heavens.
Kaia did not hurt #3, but of course - if this were to happen repeatedly - the chick might become very scared to show itself, and thus it might under-participate in feedings.
She does a ps.
Again she touches #3, but she doesn't drag it out of the nest bowl.
We don't know what Kaia's intentions were.
I myself no longer believe that much in "testing the chick". We drew hope from that at the time with Kaia, but it turned out not to be "some kind of testing" afterwards.
Kaia did not (unlike what Kati did) grab her chick by the head or neck and lift it up, nor did she shake it. Thank heavens.
Kaia did not hurt #3, but of course - if this were to happen repeatedly - the chick might become very scared to show itself, and thus it might under-participate in feedings.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Swenja
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19:05 Karl II is at home. Greeting and Kaia flies away.
He finds that the chicks are full. Karl II preens the chicks. He moves the egg a little and covers them all.
Karl II feathers are wet from underneath.
He finds that the chicks are full. Karl II preens the chicks. He moves the egg a little and covers them all.
Karl II feathers are wet from underneath.
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It's hard to disagree with you, Anne7. I didn't want to think about bad things because I love Kaia very much and I don't want to see this kind of behaviour from her. But it's hard to see what happened as anything other than an attempt of elimination. I'm afraid it's just a training exercise in consequence of her youth. The more experienced females seem to behave much more confidently in getting rid of the smallest chicks. Very anxious for the fourth chick when it hatches.
P.S. Unfortunately, it is difficult for us to avoid emotions and not measure the behaviour of storks by human norms and standards. But we have to accept the fact that storks have their own laws of life and survival.
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We will always love Kaia, no matter what choice she makes. She simply acts according to her own conclusions.
That being said, eliminating the 3rd chick (from our perspective) might be unfounded, since Karl II shows us there is still enough food to care for them.
She just does not look for food in the right places, which is worrying.
That being said, eliminating the 3rd chick (from our perspective) might be unfounded, since Karl II shows us there is still enough food to care for them.
She just does not look for food in the right places, which is worrying.
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- Swenja
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20:07 feeding
Karl II gives the food in doses and the food slipped easily into the nest trough.
#3 sits cramped between the siblings.
Karl II waits patiently.
When the big chicks are already suffering a feeding coma, #3 is sandwiched between them.
I think #3 got too little or nothing this time.
Karl II definitely has to do something about the seating arrangements.
Karl II gives the food in doses and the food slipped easily into the nest trough.
#3 sits cramped between the siblings.
Karl II waits patiently.
When the big chicks are already suffering a feeding coma, #3 is sandwiched between them.
I think #3 got too little or nothing this time.
Karl II definitely has to do something about the seating arrangements.
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- Swenja
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about 20:36 I don't think those yipping sounds come from the egg.
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- Swenja
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20:47 #3 asks for food. Karl II gives.
The small one has difficulties eating larger fish. Karl II watches him and gives him time.
#3 finds suitable food in a comfortable size. He is full.
The small one has difficulties eating larger fish. Karl II watches him and gives him time.
#3 finds suitable food in a comfortable size. He is full.
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- asteria
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20.35.09 - hatch in progress!
- Swenja
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22:06 night vision
22:05:46 There seems to be a hole in the egg! Eggshell lifts a little.
22:05:46 There seems to be a hole in the egg! Eggshell lifts a little.
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- Anne7
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Olalaolala wrote: ↑June 4th, 2023, 7:29 pm It's hard to disagree with you, Anne7. I didn't want to think about bad things because I love Kaia very much and I don't want to see this kind of behaviour from her. But it's hard to see what happened as anything other than an attempt of elimination. I'm afraid it's just a training exercise in consequence of her youth. The more experienced females seem to behave much more confidently in getting rid of the smallest chicks. Very anxious for the fourth chick when it hatches.
P.S. Unfortunately, it is difficult for us to avoid emotions and not measure the behaviour of storks by human norms and standards. But we have to accept the fact that storks have their own laws of life and survival. 8 -)
I am also worried about #3, and for #4 (who is apparently now about to hatch) it may look even worse, I'm afraid.
Yes, it is hard to watch. But we are observing nature, and on this forum, I think the purpose is to document what happens, regardless of our human feelings. Feelings that are of course understood, shared and respected.
Kati, by the way, was very inefficient in eliminating a chick. It sometimes took days, which was really horrible to observe.
I am personally convinced that these females do it reluctantly, it is against their strong maternal instinct. They flew thousands of kilometres to reproduce, and patiently incubated for over a month. Their initial intention, obviously, is not to then kill their own chicks.
But let's just wait and see what happens.
Brofasabrofasa wrote: ↑June 4th, 2023, 7:49 pm We will always love Kaia, no matter what choice she makes. She simply acts according to her own conclusions.
That being said, eliminating the 3rd chick (from our perspective) might be unfounded, since Karl II shows us there is still enough food to care for them.
She just does not look for food in the right places, which is worrying.
Me too. I will always love Kaia. She is clever, and a very good mother.
In my opinion, Kaia is also a good hunter. Otherwise, she wouldn't be alive anymore. (I think she turned 6 this year)
She simply looks for food in different places than Karl II; she brings other kinds of food for the chicks. Karl II mainly brings fish (so he brings bigger food item), Kaia mainly brings all kinds of creatures from wetlands. And sometimes also vipers and other reptiles.
This variation - under normal circumstances - is to be welcomed.
Only, we know from Urmas that there is already a food shortage. We also saw the picture of that nearly dried-up river.
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Swenja
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It also gave me no peace as to why Kaia was so stressed this morning. I looked at the track data.
Ornitrack data from Kaia
03 June - 18:58 until 04 June - 15:33
Battery level: 93%.
Yesterday evening Kaia left the nest at 18:58 and Karl II replaced her in the nest.
This morning at 04:54 Kaia appeared in the nest with no food.
According to the track data, Kaia was only about 100 m from the nest the whole time. She does not appear to have been foraging yesterday evening. This morning, of course, neither.
At 10:20 today, Kaia left the nest again. She flew 15 km south to a stream. She reached the stream at about 11:09 and foraged there until 13:39.
Then she flew briefly to another stream about 2 km away. She searched for food over a distance of 1 km. She was there until about 15:04.
She flew back to the nest at about 15:04 and we saw Kaia through the camera at 15:33.
Kaia had good food for the chicks this time.
I don't think there is a fish basket where Kaia was today. Kaia was gathering food along the stream courses and not in one spot or around a specific point.
Ornitrack data from Kaia
03 June - 18:58 until 04 June - 15:33
Battery level: 93%.
Yesterday evening Kaia left the nest at 18:58 and Karl II replaced her in the nest.
This morning at 04:54 Kaia appeared in the nest with no food.
According to the track data, Kaia was only about 100 m from the nest the whole time. She does not appear to have been foraging yesterday evening. This morning, of course, neither.
At 10:20 today, Kaia left the nest again. She flew 15 km south to a stream. She reached the stream at about 11:09 and foraged there until 13:39.
Then she flew briefly to another stream about 2 km away. She searched for food over a distance of 1 km. She was there until about 15:04.
She flew back to the nest at about 15:04 and we saw Kaia through the camera at 15:33.
Kaia had good food for the chicks this time.
I don't think there is a fish basket where Kaia was today. Kaia was gathering food along the stream courses and not in one spot or around a specific point.
Freedom!
- Swenja
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Feedings today:
06:00-06:04 Kaia gives food porridge with pieces.
07:16 porridge again
09:59 porridge again
10:21 Karl II
12:08 Karl II
13:57 Karl II porridge
14:43 Karl II porridge
15:24 Karl II porridge
15:35 Kaia
16:13 Kaia
18:18 Kaia
20:07 Karl II
20:47 Karl II - single feeding for #3
There were 7 successful feedings today.
06:00-06:04 Kaia gives food porridge with pieces.
07:16 porridge again
09:59 porridge again
10:21 Karl II
12:08 Karl II
13:57 Karl II porridge
14:43 Karl II porridge
15:24 Karl II porridge
15:35 Kaia
16:13 Kaia
18:18 Kaia
20:07 Karl II
20:47 Karl II - single feeding for #3
There were 7 successful feedings today.
Freedom!
- Anne7
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Many thanks, Swenja!
“Clearly, animals know more than we think, and think a great deal more than we know.”
— Irene Pepperberg
— Irene Pepperberg
- Swenja
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Thank you too @Anne7
Who does the night shift?
The fourth chick probably wants to meet his siblings in the night.
Hm, camera transmission off
about min. 0:48, eggshell in motion at the hole
00:01 camera transmission on
Who does the night shift?
The fourth chick probably wants to meet his siblings in the night.
Hm, camera transmission off
about min. 0:48, eggshell in motion at the hole
00:01 camera transmission on
Freedom!